(no subject)

[castalie]

I have a question regarding SG - the question will be a generic one but I'm asking because of something I saw on one of my SG MLs. Would you, as a writer, demand feedback after posting a fic to a ML? I can't help thinking that it's a bit annoying even though technically, I suppose a writer has a right to wonder about feedback in general? All I know is that that kind of demand actually makes me want to not comment on their stories - as petty as it sounds. Or maybe it all depends on the way it's formulated.

When you post your stories on-line, you usually hope that some people will a) read them b) like them and c) that some among those who liked them will take the time to send a FB. I don't write for feedback - or I would write so much more than I do! - but getting them is one of those little pleasures in life, no doubt about that - I absolutely adore each and every one of them, be it a one-liner or a in-depth LoC. So yes, by posting a fic to a ML or an archive you sorta imply you'd love to get feedbacks... but isn't there a difference between expecting something and demanding it?

If people enjoyed your story and enjoyed it enough that they took the time to send you a FB it's absolutely brilliant - and true enough, considering the number of feedback you usually get as opposed to the number of people who actually read your story, I can understand one may really ponder about the whole thing, but actually demanding it and even getting a bit cranky because you don't? That irks me a bit, I have to admit. Then again, it's just me so if you actually did it, I'm curious... did you ever receive more feedbacks?

And finally, this has nothing to do with anything, but la casa del Mouse is still enjoying the Olympics tremendously. The swimming and the fencing in particular, apparently. The telly is on almost all day to follow the events - go figure.

Comments

[alinewrites.livejournal.com]

it's a question that comes back regularly.
the politically correct answer is: a writer doesn't write for feedback, he writes for himself. Yeah. But then... Feedback fuels the fire; maybe lack of feedback can lead people to stop writing.
Still it's both stupid and awkward and counter-productive to *demand* feedback; the usual reaction to such a demand is generally not to give any feedback, just as a reaction.
There are subtle and polite ways to encourage people to give feedback without being ridiculously begging, or threatening. I remember reading something about that on LJ some months ago.

[castalie.livejournal.com]

But if people stop writing just because they don't get feedback, doesn't it mean they like feedback more than writing and that their fics are just a means to an end? If they stop writing just because they don't get enough feedback, surely they don't like writing that much after all? That they would stop posting their fics on-line is one thing, but that they would stop writing altogether just seems over-dramatic to me. Maybe I'm not being PC either, mind lol

Also, I definitely think there's a subtle and 'soft' way of asking for feedback and just the 'Feeback: highly appreciated' section in lots of templates is enough for me. I mean, of course you'd like feedback, it shouldn't even need to be explained but saying it that way can't hurt - and it's non-threatening, indeed *g*

[walkawayslowly.livejournal.com]

My favorite are the people who only post one chapter of a story and then put something at the end like "if I get enough feedback comments, I'll keep going."

AND! In the popslash fandom a couple of years ago, there was this entire group of people that formed this little club that said "we're not writing anything else until we get feedback" and made buttons and had a little "no feedback, no story" slogan. It was kind of sickening. I guess you have to get your kicks where you can, obviously they aren't getting enough attention in their offline lives.

[castalie.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, I saw those two. Always makes me smile - right before I even hit the back button, I can't help it, it's like a knee jerk reaction! lol

Re: the little clique in the popslash fandom - my my, some people sure think a lot of themselves, too! *shakes head*

[walkawayslowly.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes they do. And, from what I saw of their fic, for absolutely no good reason either. :p

[crystalskull.livejournal.com]

Demanding feedback is just a little out of line. Okay, it's a lot. The point of posting really should be to get the work out there, let it build momentum. Besides, what you tend to get back from demands is nowhere near helpful, and while praise may be nice, advice is better.

As for the icon, so you! I'm using this one in honor of the French fencers, the best, in my opinion.

[castalie.livejournal.com]

I agree, not only is it kinda rude but it also won't give you the feedback you should get, I can see that, definitely. Besides it's a little sad, but I'm sure it's putting off some readers who wouldn't have minded commenting in the first place - I know I just turn my back in those cases.

Ohhh great icon! And thanks for both the interest and the support *g*

[crystalskull.livejournal.com]

Well, you all may have the good fencers, but we have women's Sabre gold! Haha!

As a former foil fencer, though, I have way more respect for good foilests. Talent needed, that's for sure.

[ginalin.livejournal.com]

Geez, isn't demanding feedback a bit like demanding sex? I mean, I guess you can, but wouldn't you rather have someone fuck you because they WANT to?

I dunno, I guess "Get down there and don't come back up til you have a cum mustache!" is some people's idea of a good time, but not mine, thanks.

[castalie.livejournal.com]

Ohhh great analogy, I love it! Yes, I guess it would be the same principle, and from this new angle, it seems like it's even worse and more stupid, really *nodnod*

Thanks for the input - though I don't really know what to do with the 'cum moustache' imagery you put in my head now! lol

[ginalin.livejournal.com]

LOL. I kind of stole that line from Margaret Cho, actually, who was making fun of a dominatrix she once met who she just couldn't take seriously because she was too blonde and cutesy.

Now I think of that every time someone tries to get all tough and demanding when they're obviously not in a position to back it up.

[frayen.livejournal.com]

LOVE the icon.


Yeah, feed back is nice and I love getting it. But to demand feed back is just wrong.

One girl posted to one of my ML's reminding everyone that we had not commented on the story she had posted and could we please send her feed back as she was really sick with a cold and it would make her feel better.

::shudders::


That started one hell of a flame war

[castalie.livejournal.com]

LOVE your icon too!

I can see the flame war burning after that kind of mail - and the writer I mentioned-without-mentioning in my post is apparently doing those weird mails on a regular basis now. He/she even started their own martyrdom recently, or so it seems.

Write you want, don't demand feedback and be done with it, man! *sigh*

[ev-vy.livejournal.com]

*laughs* I saw that too. My first thought was, how dumb can you be to demand feedback onlist? I think it was the same person who earlier asked a dumb question why people weren't sending any feedback to their story. what surprised me was that someone responded, listing possible reasons. *headdesks*

[castalie.livejournal.com]

It's definitely the same writer. That mail where they asked about why they didn't receive feedbacks made me smile, not exactly in a good way either, because puh-lease! And now this... plus, they apparently sent another mail last night explaining why they write what they write and where they apparently apologised and everything? Maybe they want to start their own martydom?

[turps33.livejournal.com]

Best icon for you ever!

I can just imagine you jumping on that poor girl *g* It's a better way to get an icon than the person who I commented to, who then turned around and said. I love your icon, I saved it, now I just have to rotate it in. WTF!?

But that's not important. What is is Danny whumping ;)

As for feedback, if anyone demands it I don't give it, simple as that. Maybe it's childish but it annoys me you know?

Hope things warm up for you soon btw.

[castalie.livejournal.com]

Damn, some people have some nerves, really! I did it the polite way myself, thank you very much, because some people actually have common sense *shakes head* And yes this icon is just the.best.ever lol

I'll join with the childish reaction then, because it just annoys me enough that I turn my back on their stories too.

Thanks, I'm feeling so stressed out these days and it feels like I have so much anger or I don't want inside me that I even have problem concentrating on stuff, I swear. Anyway, next week I'll be free of any stressful situations, hopefully *g*

[stacy-l.livejournal.com]

Hmm I see you found jadespencer357. She's been using that icon about two weeks now. Every time she lists a Danny whumping fic that's worth reading she uses that icon to indicate it. I always giggle and believe it or not I usually do think of you *g* Actually she's quite talented with icons. You should see some of the others she's created. Wow!

Now onto your question...

In my opinion it's not right to demand feedbacks. I've never actually did this myself. I have made posts to lists asking why some people seem to get more feedback than others and so on but I've never actually sent out a plea for feedback on any list. I just...well I find it odd to even list the title of my story when talking about it because I don't want people to think I'm show boating or anything. That's just me...

[castalie.livejournal.com]

Lol You know me pretty well, don't you, that's so sweet *g*

And yes, I found her icons yesterday and fell in love with them, she really does great ones. I snagged several, this one included, obviously lol

Yeah, I sometimes wonder about feedbacks, but since I'm really satisfied about the ones I get, I don't really spend that much time on the subject, I'll have to admit.

I wouldn't really dream of even asking for them, not in that demanding way, ever. I get that people get curious about why they do or don't get LoCs, about what kind of stories attract more of them, but some writers just go over the top, I think *g*

Yeppers...

[starwatcher]

-
>>>Would you, as a writer, demand feedback after posting a fic to a ML?<<<

Absolutely not!!! Feedback is a gift from reader to writer, and polite people don't "demand" that someone offer them a gift. Some people hint quietly, some more broadly, but they shouldn't "demand" -- it's just basic good manners.

>>>I suppose a writer has a right to wonder about feedback in general?<<<

Oh, definitely. And I'll admit to pouting if (when) my stories don't get as much feedback as less-well-written stories. BUT, my pouting is done in private, and then I give myself a good talking-to that consists of combinations of, "Well, lots of people like but don't comment" and "You know you wrote a good story, you don't need anyone else to validate it" and "Well, they're probably too busy to read and/or comment" and "So, who needs it; they don't recognize quality when they see it anyway."

*g* Sour grapes, anyone? But I have to buck up my spirits some way when I was expecting / hoping for more feedback.

>>>All I know is that that kind of demand actually makes me want to not comment on their stories<<<

I've never seen such a demand, but I know that my reactions would be the same. More than not commenting, I wouldn't even read the story. I would *feel* like skimming through their story in order to tell them everything that was wrong with it, but I'm not that mean, and I have better things to do with my time.

>>>By posting a fic to a ML or an archive you sorta imply you'd love to get feedbacks... but isn't there a difference between expecting something and demanding it?<<<

Big, BIG difference, and on-line pouting, demands, and threats show a great lack of maturity, and very bad manners.

>>>Considering the number of feedback you usually get as opposed to the number of people who actually read your story, I can understand one may really ponder about the whole thing,<<<

Always; I suppose that's human nature. We all want outside validation, and feedback is the only kind most of us get for our stories.

>>>But actually demanding it and even getting a bit cranky because you don't? That irks me a bit, I have to admit.<<<

Me, too, as mentioned above. I think the best hint I've seen was "Feedback is treasured." That sums it all up very nicely.

>>>And finally, this has nothing to do with anything, but la casa del Mouse is still enjoying the Olympics tremendously.<<<

*g* En la casa del StarWatcher, too, but for me it's the equestrian, gymnastics, diving, sailing, archery and white-water canoe/kayak. I've tried to like fencing -- I like the *idea* of it -- but I've never had the opportunity to take lessons, so I don't understand what's going on; it all happens too fast for me to follow.

>>>The telly is on almost all day to follow the events - go figure.<<<

Yes, indeed. I video-tape all day, then watch that night while taping the evening events on another machine to watch later. This way I can fast-forward through the commercials and events I'm not interested in, and I don't get *too* far behind in watching. However, I won't finish "watching" the Olympics until about four days *after* the closing ceremonies. *g*

BTW -- Didn't get the e-mail you said you sent. Can you send again? (!@#$#@!cyberspace.)

Re: Yeppers...

[castalie.livejournal.com]

I see we're on the same page. I can't really imagine demanding for feedback, and yes it would be like demanding a present from someone, and we all agree it would be downright rude. I guess some writers consider they have a right to ask for it since they're the ones to provide the goods so to speak... but I don't see it that way.

I sent the mail again, this time to your LJ account.