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castalieI watched Affinity this morning and that was the shippy scene everyone was raving about? *blink* See, this is the ultimate proof you should always see a scene for yourself because when you hear about it from others, it always gets blown out of proportions - though I already knew that, but I was still surprised.
I was already bracing myself for a painful ship scene and I got this in its place? It wasn't bad at all *g* Must have been painful for Jack though because Sam's question had to remind him of everything he lost, namely Charlie first and then Sara, as in the life he had before Sam or Daniel entered the picture - and that was painful, but apart from that, it didn't hurt my eyes, I was grateful even *g*
In a way, should it have been Jack and Daniel doing the same scene, it would have been called subtext, or not even that : we would have seen it as someone asking advice to their friend concerning one of the biggest decisions of their lives, ie marrying someone and committing to them.
I don't really see the difference here. More precisely what I mean is, if you wanted to see Teh Ship, you turned the subtext into text and you had yourself a very nice shippy scene - if you didn't see anything, there was indeed nothing to see. It wasn't a shippy scene, your perception of it was though, or wasn't obviously *g*
Ohhh wait, there was the Ship theme during the scene *rolls eyes* It's funny because we slashers? We don't need any kind of cheesy music to warn us about any J/D subtext message of love - as a matter of fact, I never even realised said cheesy music was THE ship theme, which should tell you how much I believe in it lol
I always thought it was the cheesy-music-that-warns-the-audience-something-moving-is-happening-because-otherwise-said-audience-wouldn't-know-of-course. I was amused when I learnt it apparently meant something different.
Seriously though, there was something to satisfy pretty much everyone during that scene which is why I don't see where the fuss comes from - though I rarely see it, anyway.
To me, J/D slashers and J/S shippers are on the same boat - our respective pairings aren't canon. Sure, we see the loveI'll concede some are supposed to have canon UST for conversation's sake and we know how to translate scenes, but technically it's not canon and sorry to disappoint but S/J isn't more valid than J/D, since they're both on the same subtext or fanon plane. We slashers deal with it on a regular basis, I don't see where's the problem is. And after all, just because it's het, doesn't mean it has to be validated, right? A hint is a hint, subtext is subtext : we all work and know how to play with those - slashers or shippers. Note though that when I say the S/J isn't more valid, I'm not implying it's less valid either - I'm putting them pretty much on the same level, after all.
I don't understand why there're so many wanks - apart from the fact that people love to fight over stupid things - but the only ones who get their ships validated right now? As in so farwe don't see what the end of the show will bring us *cough*
The Sam/Pete shippers.
[And how sweet was that when Sam said 'yes', btw? Now I fear for Pete, of course]
Sure, we could get jealous that a pairing is officially acknowledged and everything, well that's how it is, so what's the big deal? And don't you have fics to comfort yourselves, anyway? *g* That's what fanfiction is for - validate and acknowledge your not-canon pairing and turn the subtext into plain and hot and sweet and sexy text.
Oh something else btw? I'd like people to stop accusing slashers of hating or not seeing S/J just because they are slashers-and-how-narrow-minded-of-them-reallly. I for one never saw anything between Sam and Jack, and I was a SG fan before I became a slasher, so that's not the reason. Truth is, I saw sparkage between Sam and Martouf and I didn't even like Martouf, so you can't accuse me of being biased, really.
Blimey, did I digress or what! Oh and since I'm on the subject, do I need to put a bloody disclaimer on my own LJ stating what I said is just my two cents and I don't expect anyone else to even agree with me and I'm all right with that as long as people stay civil and you know, don't check their intelligence at the door? I hope not. I'm not really worried about my flist, but you never know with other people *pets flist*
Getting folked is nice, getting wanked is- *trails off* Yeah oooookay, we're apparently entering the realm of innuendos here, so let's tread carefully lol What I mean is, I saw enough wanks going on in my flist, I don't need to see one in my own LJ *shrug*
Man, at first I just wanted to talk about The Scene in passing and focus on how cute Teal'c and Daniel were in that episode. Daniel in particular but that's just because I love Daniel so much lol Those two made me laugh during the scene where Daniel invites himself at Teal'c's [Teal'c's??] - that's a nice home Teal'c got himself *g* And how cuter it was when Teal'c guessed at once that Jack had sent Daniel. I like how it shows their closeness *g* And it's also proof that Teal'c is aware of Jack and Daniel's relationship because he knew that Jack had convinced Daniel to have a talk with him right after Jack had fucked Daniel into the mattress. See? Slasher view, yo!
Yeah anyway, I don't really have a lot to say about this episode. It was nice, it made me laugh or smile at places and I liked the interaction between the team. The scene at the SGC between Teal'c, Sam and Daniel was also a favourite, with them trying to explain to Teal'c how things work here, Sam's mini rant and Daniel suddenly turning to her and going So how are things? lol I enjoyed the following exchange immensely S: Fine, just fine. We were talking about Teal'c's problems D: I *thought* we were - absolutely not verbatim btw, but the spirit is there, right? *g*
Also, I started watching Poisoning the Well --as in the very first minutes-- and there's something to say about SG's pompous attitude, honestly. So it's okay for them to hide information from everyone else, read Teyla's people in the first episodes, because of course they can't trust anyone else, but they get all cranky and indignant because other people dare to behave the same way with them? Talk about double standards!
Oh and this has nothing to do with the rest, but to whom it may concern - I sent everything I had to send on Monday - plus two more. Yes, finally. Sorry about the delay guys.
I was already bracing myself for a painful ship scene and I got this in its place? It wasn't bad at all *g* Must have been painful for Jack though because Sam's question had to remind him of everything he lost, namely Charlie first and then Sara, as in the life he had before Sam or Daniel entered the picture - and that was painful, but apart from that, it didn't hurt my eyes, I was grateful even *g*
In a way, should it have been Jack and Daniel doing the same scene, it would have been called subtext, or not even that : we would have seen it as someone asking advice to their friend concerning one of the biggest decisions of their lives, ie marrying someone and committing to them.
I don't really see the difference here. More precisely what I mean is, if you wanted to see Teh Ship, you turned the subtext into text and you had yourself a very nice shippy scene - if you didn't see anything, there was indeed nothing to see. It wasn't a shippy scene, your perception of it was though, or wasn't obviously *g*
Ohhh wait, there was the Ship theme during the scene *rolls eyes* It's funny because we slashers? We don't need any kind of cheesy music to warn us about any J/D subtext message of love - as a matter of fact, I never even realised said cheesy music was THE ship theme, which should tell you how much I believe in it lol
I always thought it was the cheesy-music-that-warns-the-audience-something-moving-is-happening-because-otherwise-said-audience-wouldn't-know-of-course. I was amused when I learnt it apparently meant something different.
Seriously though, there was something to satisfy pretty much everyone during that scene which is why I don't see where the fuss comes from - though I rarely see it, anyway.
To me, J/D slashers and J/S shippers are on the same boat - our respective pairings aren't canon. Sure, we see the love
I don't understand why there're so many wanks - apart from the fact that people love to fight over stupid things - but the only ones who get their ships validated right now? As in so far
The Sam/Pete shippers.
[And how sweet was that when Sam said 'yes', btw? Now I fear for Pete, of course]
Sure, we could get jealous that a pairing is officially acknowledged and everything, well that's how it is, so what's the big deal? And don't you have fics to comfort yourselves, anyway? *g* That's what fanfiction is for - validate and acknowledge your not-canon pairing and turn the subtext into plain and hot and sweet and sexy text.
Oh something else btw? I'd like people to stop accusing slashers of hating or not seeing S/J just because they are slashers-and-how-narrow-minded-of-them-reallly. I for one never saw anything between Sam and Jack, and I was a SG fan before I became a slasher, so that's not the reason. Truth is, I saw sparkage between Sam and Martouf and I didn't even like Martouf, so you can't accuse me of being biased, really.
Blimey, did I digress or what! Oh and since I'm on the subject, do I need to put a bloody disclaimer on my own LJ stating what I said is just my two cents and I don't expect anyone else to even agree with me and I'm all right with that as long as people stay civil and you know, don't check their intelligence at the door? I hope not. I'm not really worried about my flist, but you never know with other people *pets flist*
Getting folked is nice, getting wanked is- *trails off* Yeah oooookay, we're apparently entering the realm of innuendos here, so let's tread carefully lol What I mean is, I saw enough wanks going on in my flist, I don't need to see one in my own LJ *shrug*
Man, at first I just wanted to talk about The Scene in passing and focus on how cute Teal'c and Daniel were in that episode. Daniel in particular but that's just because I love Daniel so much lol Those two made me laugh during the scene where Daniel invites himself at Teal'c's [Teal'c's??] - that's a nice home Teal'c got himself *g* And how cuter it was when Teal'c guessed at once that Jack had sent Daniel. I like how it shows their closeness *g* And it's also proof that Teal'c is aware of Jack and Daniel's relationship because he knew that Jack had convinced Daniel to have a talk with him right after Jack had fucked Daniel into the mattress. See? Slasher view, yo!
Yeah anyway, I don't really have a lot to say about this episode. It was nice, it made me laugh or smile at places and I liked the interaction between the team. The scene at the SGC between Teal'c, Sam and Daniel was also a favourite, with them trying to explain to Teal'c how things work here, Sam's mini rant and Daniel suddenly turning to her and going So how are things? lol I enjoyed the following exchange immensely S: Fine, just fine. We were talking about Teal'c's problems D: I *thought* we were - absolutely not verbatim btw, but the spirit is there, right? *g*
Also, I started watching Poisoning the Well --as in the very first minutes-- and there's something to say about SG's pompous attitude, honestly. So it's okay for them to hide information from everyone else, read Teyla's people in the first episodes, because of course they can't trust anyone else, but they get all cranky and indignant because other people dare to behave the same way with them? Talk about double standards!
Oh and this has nothing to do with the rest, but to whom it may concern - I sent everything I had to send on Monday - plus two more. Yes, finally. Sorry about the delay guys.
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no subject
Date: 2004-08-25 07:21 am (UTC)You're so right about everything. :)))
Havent seen the ep yet but am about to. :)
no subject
Date: 2004-08-25 08:10 am (UTC)*snuggles back*
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Date: 2004-08-25 07:43 am (UTC)I think I'm gonna have to politely disagree, Mouse. I think there is a difference between J/D and J/S and it's the very fundamental fact that Jack/Sam is still het. Even though it's "fraternisation", and therefore Jack and Sam will never openly have a relationship so long as they're both military, it is still canon UST. Maybe there's no established, regular kissing, shopping for curtains, declared love kind of relationship, but the UST isn't just implied, it's text.
The thing about J/D is that it's all subtext. Sometimes it's coy subtext, sometimes it's practically in our faces ("Abyss"), but it will never, ever be text. (Unless the producers suddenly become so daring as to make two of their male leads gay and in love.)
Jack/Sam, however, has a real fighting chance of becoming canon text. Heck, we know that they "feel more for each other than they should". We know that the producers are practically throwing it in our faces (sometimes subtly, sometimes... not :P) that they have Feelings.
It's about authorial intent.
Now, as much as I wince and cringe and cover my eyes whenever the J/S 'ship threatens to overwhelm my ability to suspend disbelief, I can live with canon UST. UST is still unspoken, is still subtext. ("Divide and Conquor" was not UST; it was very much bordering on text. But I can ignore and wank it.)
However -- if S8 (or S9) ends with Jack and Sam openly confessing their feelings and getting together, I will be seriously unhappy. Because we will no longer be able to interpret J/D subtext as them being secretly in love and sleeping together for years. Unless we want to believe Jack is capable of two-timing, or dumping Daniel, which... No.
Once UST becomes "open relationship", we have a very serious problem. Hopefully the writers recognise that there are a lot of people against J/S (not just slashers, I think) and that they should keep things subtle. And... yeah. I'm not holding my breath.
So anyway, I do think J/S has it much better off than J/D. Yes, J/S may be UST, but it's still text in the way the J/D UST never can be. Unfortunately for us slashers :(
(Of course, this does not mean I think the J/S 'ship is any more valid than the J/D 'ship, or vice versa. I'm gonna 'ship whomever I like -- heck, I was 'shipping Dawn/Connor in the Buffyverse and they've never even met.)
Sorry
Date: 2004-08-25 07:54 am (UTC)I do believe that J/D and J/S both have the right to exist. (Also Jack/Teal'c, Daniel/Teal'c, and Sam/Teal'c. But not Daniel/Sam, because euwww! *g*) I guess I'm just worried about how the writers will end up resolving the J/S relationship. I know the J/D relationship will never be resolved with Jack retiring and Daniel moving in with him. But the J/S could very well end with Jack retiring and Sam moving in. And that bothers me.
And, okay, authorial intent doesn't necessarily mean I have to read the show the same way the writers are reading it. If that were true, I'd be a J/S 'shipper, right? But authorial intent means I do have to worry that a 'ship I don't like will become irreversible canon (ie Angel/Cordelia).
Now, maybe I should just relax and not borrow trouble. I like your very zen attitude *g*. And I haven't seen "Affinity" so I can't speak to the scene in question, though it seems from all accounts that it was subtle enough that one could interpret it however one preferred. (Which is how I like my J/S 'ship -- so subtle that I can blink and miss it!)
Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Hope it was at least somewhat coherent!
Re: Sorry
Date: 2004-08-25 08:09 am (UTC)Thanks for answering and not being wanky, cause you weren't, absolute not *g*
The day J/S will turn into S/P --if it doesn turn like that-- well I'll certainly have only fics to content myself, because text is text, which is why I like this ship as it is - it's not threatening per se *g* Though even if it was, I couldn't care less, to be honest. I'll read fics, period - I don't see the point of getting all worked up for a show and a fictional pairing *g*
I guess this scene is ambiguous enough it could satisfy everyone - but to call it shippy or even to refuse its shippiness wouldn't exactly be fair. You could see everything you wanted in it - which is the principle of subtext after all lol
Re: Sorry
Date: 2004-08-25 08:14 am (UTC)Hee! I really should be more like you, and keep a zen attitude :) And yeah, I think we do agree for the most part. J/S subtext is easily ignored, and I really shouldn't borrow worry by being afraid of what the writers have in store for us for the series finale. As long as we still get our J/D slashiness, it's all good!
no subject
Date: 2004-08-25 08:01 am (UTC)You mean I'll read your comment instead of deleting it at once, then? lol I'm game, go for it, girl *g*
*reads*
*nodnod* I see your point, and I agree that should one of those pairings happen in the end, it'll be J/S as opposed to J/D - that's a given. I can even dig the canon UST but it doesn't negate what I say because UST doesn't a canon pairing make, and that's really how I focused on the thing.
Oh it could be the premise of a canon J/S ship in the end of the show, but truth is, for now --and for me-- J/S is still not canon, and that's why I put it on the same level as J/D. Not because it won't ever happen, but because right now? It's not happening - I understand you won't 'accept' this difference though, the lines may be blurred, I'll admit - but to me, those lines are definitely there *g*
I could say that canon UST is still in the eyes of the beholder because sparkage between Jack and Sam, I still don't see. I'm usually a bit embarassed on Sam's behalf because I can see her pinning over him, but so far, I can't see Jack really do the same exactly, not on her level. Though this is definitely opened to interpretation, I know lol
They feel more for each other than they should - sure that's canon, but considering everything that happened afterward --or even before-- it still doesn't tell me more about them... it sure never made them more canon than anything, know what I mean?
So yeah I totally agree about the fact that TPTB could throw those two together, and it won't make me sad, it'll just make me cringe because doesn't a couple really need, I don't know passion and sparkage? But right this moment, it's still not canon... which is definitely my focus.
In other words... I think our comments can complement each other in a way *g*
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Date: 2004-08-25 09:06 am (UTC)I don't really see the difference here. More precisely what I mean is, if you wanted to see Teh Ship, you turned the subtext into text and you had yourself a very nice shippy scene - if you didn't see anything, there was indeed nothing to see. It wasn't a shippy scene, your perception of it was though, or wasn't obviously *g*
*le sigh* I loves me my subtext, in all flavours.
Ohhh wait, there was the Ship theme during the scene *rolls eyes* It's funny because we slashers? We don't need any kind of cheesy music to warn us about any J/D subtext message of love
I WANT A J/D THEME! OMFG! It could Symbolise Their Love. Or something!
To me, J/D slashers and J/S shippers are on the same boat - our respective pairings aren't canon. Sure, we see the love and we know how to translate scenes, but technically it's not canon and sorry to disappoint but S/J isn't more valid than J/D, since they're both on the same subtext or fanon plane.
I'd argue S/J has a bit more canon behind it (omg i iz teh eval shipper tr0ll!!), but overall, yeah, viva la subtext. Whee!
Sure, we could get jealous that a pairing is officially acknowledged and everything, well that's how it is, so what's the big deal?
I still say the slashers'd be megapissedoff if it was Daniel getting married. Course, the best would be if Sam and Daniel suddenly got engaged. FANDOM GO BOOM!
What I mean is, I saw enough wanks going on in my flist, I don't need to see one in my own LJ *shrug*
I not wanking! Honest!
Cuz of I like you. In a sexual way.Those two made me laugh during the scene where Daniel invites himself at Teal'c's [Teal'c's??] - that's a nice home Teal'c got himself *g* And how cuter it was when Teal'c guessed at once that Jack had sent Daniel. I like how it shows their closeness *g*
Do they want us to slash those two now? Cuz their love! It so metrosexual!
So it's okay for them to hide information from everyone else, read Teyla's people in the first episodes, because of course they can't trust anyone else, but they get all cranky and indignant because other people dare to behave the same way with them? Talk about double standards!
Well, they're all cute and whorish so they think they can get away with it. Sluts that they are.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-25 09:21 am (UTC)Noooo not a J/D theme, I don't want the ridicule of a ship theme for us slashers!
You're jealous because you have a J/S theme and it's making everyone else laugh.I'd argue S/J has a bit more canon behind it (omg i iz teh eval shipper tr0ll!!), but overall, yeah, viva la subtext. Whee!
I'll concede you have canon UST because it was brought to my attention in an early comment and even though it makes me laugh because I so don't see it for real, as in coming both ways and being passionnate or even remotely interesting nor sexy, I'll admit that's what TPTB want to shove down everyone's throat because ewwww evil and
yummydirty gay sex won't ever happen here because why would it anyway, that's a given - but overall, let's praise the sacred subtext indeed. Wheee too.Cuz of I like you. In a sexual way.Well who would't, really? [/whore]Do they want us to slash those two now? Cuz their love! It so metrosexual!
Teal'c/Daniel new OTP! They'll have hot and kelnoreemic sex and then they'll go to Ikea to buy stuff to decorate their new home, woohoo
no subject
Date: 2004-08-25 10:06 am (UTC)