I'm on a roll!
Feb. 10th, 2007 01:08 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
castalieHad a dinner out with tbf!Rissy tonight and though we ate really well, the service kinda sucked. But still, yummy food, it can't be all bad, right? :-)
So! I was rl!busy and fannish!busy today and I did watch the new SPN. Which was all kinds of awesome. Dude. Dude, JP was fucking fantastic in that ep! I never love Sam better than when he's a badass, so when he's evil? The love knows no bounds. And okay so it was not!Sam but you know what I mean! Two little moments I had to rewind was when he's doing the 'my daddy shot your daddy in the head' sing-song because that was pure gold... taunting and so ugly and the delivery was fucking spot on! I also loved when tied!not!Sam starts laughing like mad because he knows something Bobby and Dean don't, ie that the exorcism isn't gonna work because oops, he kinda learnt something new. Hee demons learn new tricks! They learn from their past mistakes, that was a nice twist, all right - and the binding spell? Was a lovely move *nods*
The whole exorcism scene was fantastic to begin with, but when it went downhill and not!Sam started on Dean, oh man, I was gasping and gripping my pillow like you wouldn't believe! I just can't get enough of the Demon family talking to Dean - what they have to say is always so fucking painful! They know Dean by heart and know where to hurt and they do it in the most deliciously way. Oh, Dean! He was hurting physically and mentally and not!Sam was saying all those ugly things and hurting him in all the worst way and hee angst and dean!pain are my favourite poison! ♥ ♥
Something I wish I'd seen at the end? Sam trying to apologise for what happened and the things he not!said and not!did to Dean. I mean, I don't think Dean would have let him finish the sentence, I don't think Dean would have wanted to hear about it but it would have been nice for Sam to go 'look, Dean, I know you don't want to hear this but I'm sorry for shooting you/beating the crap out of you/saying all those hurtful things' No, it wasn't really Sam and Dean knows it, and we know it too, but dude! If you feel so bad for something you didn't do to a stranger - and I know a killing is a whole new league but technically, if the meg!demon hadn't been stopped, things would have turned ugly for everyone, right? So why not try to apologise for something you didn't do to your brother? And Jo, too, btw. It's like - I don't dislike that ending. At all. As it happens I do love it, I'm not saying I think it would have been better if they'd done it differently just that I would have loved it if they'd addressed those issues, is all.
Speaking of non-issues, did Sam ever caress the thought of maybe, just maybe being the one to pull the trigger on himself? I'm trying to think of an instance and I can't find any. I mean, he's always angry at Dean for not wanting to kill him but what about Sam himself? What if he just took the responsibility of his death instead of giving it to Dean? Me, I don't want Sam to die; I'm not saying he should off himself but hi! Why don't you even mention suicide? Or did he? If he did, then just forget I said anything :-)
Either way it wouldn't work out, anyway - Dean would refuse both methods, but that's not even the point. The point is, why automatically put Dean in that position and better yet why put the responsibility of any possible failure on his shoulders? Admittedly, Dean just accepts everything without question so it's not as if it was OOC for either of them... technically it's also why I love the dysfunctional boys so much but still...
Dean killing Sam or Sam killing himself are both ugly scenarii and Sam has every reason to be terrified - the thought of doing it himself might be just too much and, dude, I totally get it, I'm certainly glad I'm not Sam, but just a tiny mention? And Dean would get scared and angry, and Sam would scared and they would have an argument and go back to square one. But at least the s-word would have been pronounced. [ETA: Just thought I'd make it clear that yes it doesn't count in this episode because it was never 'Sam'. I'm talking about things ever since Dean revealed what John had told him.]
I don't know if Dean's faith in and love for Sam are humbling or just plain scary... did he really, truly believe that it couldn't be Sam like he told Sam all along and then Jo? Or was he just trying to convince himself that it wasn't Sam because even if it had been, well, it wouldn't have changed anything for him. Actually, I believe he didn't believe it could be Sam... but when you refuse the eventuality of something as much as Dean does the thought of Sam becoming evil, well, denial can be pretty strong and it will make you see what you want to see. Or ignore what you don't.
Dean destroying evidence, his lying to Bobby at the end - though, yes, Bobby did know, anyway - was fucking awesome but try thinking of the length Dean would go to save Sam - "if it's the last thing I do, I'll save you" - and then you have a recipe for disaster. OH GOD DEAN DON'T GET YOURSELF KILLED, OKAY? AND DON'T SACRIFICE YOURSELF DAMMIT, IT'S TOTALLY THE SAME THING! *is scared*
Bobby was back! Hi, Bobby, so fantastic seeing you again! *kisses* And the holywaterinthebeer move was pure genius! Yeah, don't try to con a conman, Demon! You won't succeed *bounces* I also love how he was the one to save the boys in the end - quick thinking on the burn thing, man! Not so quick that I missed the great Hurting of Dean, though, so it was perfect, thanks :-)
And hi to you, too, Jo. So I guess that episode was the signal for that oncepossible!ship to canonically sink? But anyway, her scenes; the one when she's attacked was really disturbing - kudos on them both for making it good. In a disturbing way, I mean. And I enjoyed how she found Dean - I loved Dean's ringtone in "Nightshifter" and I love that it helped Jo find him i that episode... - and how she patched him up afterwards. Also liked the "no, you won't"...
Incidentally, I do hope there really is no such thing as too many coda for an episode because I don't know how many are gonna be written for 2x14 but apparently one of them will be mine. I've started writing it after the episode and before leaving and I've just finished it so I now have 3000+ words of a post-2x14 fic. It also amuses me because some 'issues' I mentioned in my review kinda found their to the story... Fancy that :-) Hee I'm writiiiiing ♥ ♥
Completely unrelated now; so I haven't been squeeing on my journal about it - though I've done a lot of it in my head - but Life on Mars series 2 premieres on Tuesday, which ohmygod I can't believe that Sam and Gene are back! And also, does anyone know where I can find the trailer on-line? Screencaps have been posted but not the original material and now I want it! I'm talking about the new trailer, the one with the actual actors in it, not the one with the puppets. Tia.
And now, I have to watch Stargate 10x14 and then the latest episode of Mythbusters. A fangirl's job is never done, is it?
So! I was rl!busy and fannish!busy today and I did watch the new SPN. Which was all kinds of awesome. Dude. Dude, JP was fucking fantastic in that ep! I never love Sam better than when he's a badass, so when he's evil? The love knows no bounds. And okay so it was not!Sam but you know what I mean! Two little moments I had to rewind was when he's doing the 'my daddy shot your daddy in the head' sing-song because that was pure gold... taunting and so ugly and the delivery was fucking spot on! I also loved when tied!not!Sam starts laughing like mad because he knows something Bobby and Dean don't, ie that the exorcism isn't gonna work because oops, he kinda learnt something new. Hee demons learn new tricks! They learn from their past mistakes, that was a nice twist, all right - and the binding spell? Was a lovely move *nods*
The whole exorcism scene was fantastic to begin with, but when it went downhill and not!Sam started on Dean, oh man, I was gasping and gripping my pillow like you wouldn't believe! I just can't get enough of the Demon family talking to Dean - what they have to say is always so fucking painful! They know Dean by heart and know where to hurt and they do it in the most deliciously way. Oh, Dean! He was hurting physically and mentally and not!Sam was saying all those ugly things and hurting him in all the worst way and hee angst and dean!pain are my favourite poison! ♥ ♥
Something I wish I'd seen at the end? Sam trying to apologise for what happened and the things he not!said and not!did to Dean. I mean, I don't think Dean would have let him finish the sentence, I don't think Dean would have wanted to hear about it but it would have been nice for Sam to go 'look, Dean, I know you don't want to hear this but I'm sorry for shooting you/beating the crap out of you/saying all those hurtful things' No, it wasn't really Sam and Dean knows it, and we know it too, but dude! If you feel so bad for something you didn't do to a stranger - and I know a killing is a whole new league but technically, if the meg!demon hadn't been stopped, things would have turned ugly for everyone, right? So why not try to apologise for something you didn't do to your brother? And Jo, too, btw. It's like - I don't dislike that ending. At all. As it happens I do love it, I'm not saying I think it would have been better if they'd done it differently just that I would have loved it if they'd addressed those issues, is all.
Speaking of non-issues, did Sam ever caress the thought of maybe, just maybe being the one to pull the trigger on himself? I'm trying to think of an instance and I can't find any. I mean, he's always angry at Dean for not wanting to kill him but what about Sam himself? What if he just took the responsibility of his death instead of giving it to Dean? Me, I don't want Sam to die; I'm not saying he should off himself but hi! Why don't you even mention suicide? Or did he? If he did, then just forget I said anything :-)
Either way it wouldn't work out, anyway - Dean would refuse both methods, but that's not even the point. The point is, why automatically put Dean in that position and better yet why put the responsibility of any possible failure on his shoulders? Admittedly, Dean just accepts everything without question so it's not as if it was OOC for either of them... technically it's also why I love the dysfunctional boys so much but still...
Dean killing Sam or Sam killing himself are both ugly scenarii and Sam has every reason to be terrified - the thought of doing it himself might be just too much and, dude, I totally get it, I'm certainly glad I'm not Sam, but just a tiny mention? And Dean would get scared and angry, and Sam would scared and they would have an argument and go back to square one. But at least the s-word would have been pronounced. [ETA: Just thought I'd make it clear that yes it doesn't count in this episode because it was never 'Sam'. I'm talking about things ever since Dean revealed what John had told him.]
I don't know if Dean's faith in and love for Sam are humbling or just plain scary... did he really, truly believe that it couldn't be Sam like he told Sam all along and then Jo? Or was he just trying to convince himself that it wasn't Sam because even if it had been, well, it wouldn't have changed anything for him. Actually, I believe he didn't believe it could be Sam... but when you refuse the eventuality of something as much as Dean does the thought of Sam becoming evil, well, denial can be pretty strong and it will make you see what you want to see. Or ignore what you don't.
Dean destroying evidence, his lying to Bobby at the end - though, yes, Bobby did know, anyway - was fucking awesome but try thinking of the length Dean would go to save Sam - "if it's the last thing I do, I'll save you" - and then you have a recipe for disaster. OH GOD DEAN DON'T GET YOURSELF KILLED, OKAY? AND DON'T SACRIFICE YOURSELF DAMMIT, IT'S TOTALLY THE SAME THING! *is scared*
Bobby was back! Hi, Bobby, so fantastic seeing you again! *kisses* And the holywaterinthebeer move was pure genius! Yeah, don't try to con a conman, Demon! You won't succeed *bounces* I also love how he was the one to save the boys in the end - quick thinking on the burn thing, man! Not so quick that I missed the great Hurting of Dean, though, so it was perfect, thanks :-)
And hi to you, too, Jo. So I guess that episode was the signal for that oncepossible!ship to canonically sink? But anyway, her scenes; the one when she's attacked was really disturbing - kudos on them both for making it good. In a disturbing way, I mean. And I enjoyed how she found Dean - I loved Dean's ringtone in "Nightshifter" and I love that it helped Jo find him i that episode... - and how she patched him up afterwards. Also liked the "no, you won't"...
Incidentally, I do hope there really is no such thing as too many coda for an episode because I don't know how many are gonna be written for 2x14 but apparently one of them will be mine. I've started writing it after the episode and before leaving and I've just finished it so I now have 3000+ words of a post-2x14 fic. It also amuses me because some 'issues' I mentioned in my review kinda found their to the story... Fancy that :-) Hee I'm writiiiiing ♥ ♥
Completely unrelated now; so I haven't been squeeing on my journal about it - though I've done a lot of it in my head - but Life on Mars series 2 premieres on Tuesday, which ohmygod I can't believe that Sam and Gene are back! And also, does anyone know where I can find the trailer on-line? Screencaps have been posted but not the original material and now I want it! I'm talking about the new trailer, the one with the actual actors in it, not the one with the puppets. Tia.
And now, I have to watch Stargate 10x14 and then the latest episode of Mythbusters. A fangirl's job is never done, is it?
no subject
Date: 2007-02-10 12:04 pm (UTC)Don't remember cheering on him doing it.
No, sorry! By that point I was talking to the general feeling on my flist. Someone has specifically said she'd loved that part, and I'm not zen enough to comment on it. I mean, maybe she liked it in terms of character continuity, not in terms of "yay, Dean done good!", I won't know until I ask, right? ;)
Your "fault" was that you didn't mention it at all, so I assumed you didn't find it wrong. ;)
The show is 'dark' enough that it would be possible for him to mention just offing himself before he does anything.
Hm, you mean while he's still "good"? I don't think we could ask this of him... Everyone wants to live. And then if he mentioned it Dean wouldn't literally let him out of sight ever again. And if he did it without mentioning it to Dean, well, the show would kinda end. ;) (Or it could become the Jo and Dean hunting show. :P)
And BTW, I think it's Jo's asking if Sam was possessed when he did what he did that lost her points with Dean, not anything else.
Speaking of which, man, evil!not-Sam is close to Absolute Power!Daniel in terms of being convincing and very much Evil Overlord-y. O_o
And now I'd like to see evil!not-Dean, just for comparison's sake. We've seen evil!not-John, evil!not-Sam. Shapeshifter!Dean was kinda not too far from Dean!Dean.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-10 12:27 pm (UTC)Your "fault" was that you didn't mention it at all, so I assumed you didn't find it wrong. ;)
Want me to add an ETA? lol The first time Dean punched Sam, I did mention how I didn't like it at all, though *nods*
don't think we could ask this of him... Everyone wants to live. And then if he mentioned it Dean wouldn't literally let him out of sight ever again.
But, see, I don't think it would be so OOC of him, and of course everyone wants to live. But like I was saying to
Also, Dean would, of course, be furious and just tell him to shut the hell up, or not let him out of sight and stuff, and maybe it would just make things a bit too complicated but I can totally see Sam do it. Except I don't and that's why it keeps bugging me, I guess.
Or it could become the Jo and Dean hunting show. :P)
Wow, you're harsh with me today, mate!
think it's Jo's asking if Sam was possessed when he did what he did that lost her points with Dean, not anything else.
Ohh I like that, yeah.
evil!not-Sam is close to Absolute Power!Daniel in terms of being convincing and very much Evil Overlord-y. O_o
He is. And that's a huge compliment coming from us!
nd now I'd like to see evil!not-Dean, just for comparison's sake. We've seen evil!not-John, evil!not-Sam.
It'd be fun to see that, yeah. Though maybe they'll think that it's been a bit too overdone? Though evil!not-character is never really overdone, but you know what I mean. Two out of three, it kinda beats the odds, if you ask me.
Also, dude, so to ward off possession, you just need to carry the Special Amulet with you? Or did I miss something? Because if it's right and if it works, then how come hunters don't all have one? Dude *rolls eyes*
no subject
Date: 2007-02-10 01:01 pm (UTC)Maybe it's because suicide goes against Sam's beliefs, if we are to assume that his praying means he takes more of the Church's teachings at heart? I don't think so, though.
Or because they don't want to send this message to the large teenage base of viewers, must not forget that a show doesn't exist in a void, so they're not independent in their writing decisions...
But I also agree with Morgan32 where she said that the whole thing with Sam being so *doggedly* convinced that It's His Destiny feels a bit OOC in the stupid way. Like the way he interpreted the good!twin killing of the evil!twin as a sign that the dude could turn into a cold-blood killer or something. Whatever his flaws, Sam isn't stupid.
But it could also be for dramatic reasons. Like, you don't just wake up and say, "hey, I've had an idea!" and bang! There has to be some dramatic build-up and something to tip him over the edge.
See, when not-Sam was with Dean in that room and said "no, you'll live" and slowly raised the gun I thought it was the *perfect* moment for a suicide attempt, *because* he'd milked the "you must kill me" thing for all its worth, so it was time for the revelation that "hey, I could do it myself!". Only it wasn't Sam. ;) I was actually disappointed, because I was so sure I knew what would follow and was eagerly anticipating it. (That's because I trust Kripke not to really kill either of the brothers. Like, hello, that's whom his show lives off. :D)
Randomly, since the episode before this one I've had this tiny scene floating in my mind, of almost-evil-Sam begging Dean to kill him before it's too late, and Dean throwing the gun away and shaking Sam and saying, in that low, choked voice of his "You don't get it, Sammy. I'd rather burn in hell with you than do this."
It's probably OOC, but it's plaguing me. Because Dean's so sure he can save Sam, but if he fails and dies trying? He now canonly said he's rather die, but in SPN there are worse things than death...
And the thing is that it's more than just their two lives and souls at stake. Obviously the Yellow-Eyed demon has grander plans, so it might be the whole world at stake. And I'd like to see how far Dean's devotion went. And Sam dying might not be the worst thing that could happen to him either, if the alternative to being saved is going literally to hell and taking the world with him/them (the rest of the Special Children.)
no subject
Date: 2007-02-10 01:37 pm (UTC)No, I don't think it's because suicide goes against Sam's beliefs, either. Or, say, in that particular case, I don't think it would be the reason. I mean, killing himself would go against his beliefs but killing, well, everyone wouldn't? It would be more like saving everyone else, in this case.
r because they don't want to send this message to the large teenage base of viewers, must not forget that a show doesn't exist in a void, so they're not independent in their writing decisions...
I hadn't thought of that at all. But then, they did send the message that killing someone else to protect yourself is a solution. So why not killing yourself to protect others? Wouldn't it be the same thing? In a twisted way? But maybe you're right. Seriously, I hadn't thought of that at all. I guess suicide is a hotter issue than murder? Which is another issue altogether, but whatever *g*
Sam being so *doggedly* convinced that It's His Destiny feels a bit OOC in the stupid way.
I don't get it either. Why so sure? Like, it's as if there is not even the shadow of a doubt in his mind, he can't even seem to think of something else. And I agree, I thought his reasoning regarding the the evil!twin v good!twin was really sketchy.
Sometimes, I swear it's like he's so convinced he'll turn evil that he will turn himself that way even though it wasn't meant to be in his case. Like a placebo effect or something.
Like, you don't just wake up and say, "hey, I've had an idea!" and bang! There has to be some dramatic build-up and something to tip him over the edge.
True enough. And this is admittedly something I enjoy in that show, how things take time and aren't necessarily resolved in one or even two episodes.
(That's because I trust Kripke not to really kill either of the brothers. Like, hello, that's whom his show lives off. :D)
f almost-evil-Sam begging Dean to kill him before it's too late, and Dean throwing the gun away and shaking Sam and saying, in that low, choked voice of his "You don't get it, Sammy. I'd rather burn in hell with you than do this."
You seem to be on a roll these days, maybe you could write a little something with that scene?
And I can't even say it feels that OOC to me, btw. Sometimes I wonder how deep Dean's devotion run exactly. Like, the guy is fucked-up, maybe the thought of being with Sam, even in hell, would be better than living without him, especially if Dean is the one who killed him? He already carries so much guilt because of John's sacrifice for him, and Dean wasn't even conscious when it happened.
There's this fic - I think it has two installments - which have both evil!Sam and evil!Dean working for Yellow-Eyed demon and as dark and twisted it is, I have to say it gives me chill to think of Dean being with Sam like that...
...
Dude, remember a time when we only watched for the pretty?