Gen vs Hard Core Smarm vs Slash Musing and Moonridge

[castalie]

Something mrs_puppethead said in one of her last posts made me think of gen!TS vs slash!TS. Don't you feel like smarm is just another word for slash? It really sounds like this sometimes. I was wondering, when you read gen, do you sometimes turn the story into pre-slash or mild-slash in your head?

You know the kind of gen fics I'm talking about - the 'gen with a twist' we could call them, not the regular gen with just enough h/c to please my darker side and with just enough comfort to stay in the realm of what we could see in the show, but the ones with excessive cuddling, touchies all around, the ones with a Blair crawling to Jim's bed and a Jim spooning around him all night, or cradling him close on the couch to make the bad day go away - do you see what I mean? I love smarm, I love it because I get the deep Jim-Blair connection I crave in fics, and I usually don't care if they're pushing it or not. Or maybe I do, but in the sense that I enjoy it tremendously and I want more of it lol

However, and even though I'm the hard core slasher that I am, I'm usually a very good girl and never think slash or pre-slash when I read those pushing-smarm stories. I stick to what to the writer wanted me to see. They say it's gen? Well, okay, it's gen and let's forget the hints and innuendos you can see just everywhere. Let's pretend we don't see any of them - and I can appreciate the story within the gen context the writer meant to write. I know some people read those stories as slash though, because sometimes... it's just too much.

Does someone know of the Dark Guide series by Susan Foster? It's one of my favourite gen stories, but it has sometimes even more sexual subtexts, sexual texts and innuendos than some slash fics I read, I swear *g* Maybe it's one of the reason why I like it so much, now that I think of it. It's a gen story with a very original and particular feel to it. But I know some slashers who call it downright slash, and really, you can't blame them because if someone read the story without any warning, they'd just wonder when the hell Jeme and Blaer are going to fuck each other for good *cough*

I'm curious as to what you think?

Also, let's stay on TS ground. One of my TS MLs is already making ready for Moonridge in June, and the preparations for the Auction are always pretty stimulating *g* I saw webbgirl mentioning it in her LJ, so it's my turn now *g*

For those who don't know, the Moonridge Auction was created to raise money for the Moonridge Animal Park in Big Bear, California, in the name of Garett Maggart. So yeah, you can say it's heavily TS oriented *g*

The whole thing is pretty impressive, and the items people donate and for which others will bid are just... well, if I could, I would bid for all of them, really! *greedy*

You find so many things, stories donated by some of the most famous TS writers you can find, beautiful fanart and other items that are making me drool like you wouldn't believe! Impressive is definitely one way of putting it *g*

So many great things to choose from, and for such a good cause too *g* Gotta love a fandom involved in that kind of event *hugs TS*

Comments

[webbgirl.livejournal.com]

Also, let's stay on TS ground. One of my TS MLs is already making ready for Moonridge in June, and the preparations for the Auction are always pretty stimulating *g* I saw webgirl mentioning it in her LJ, so it's my turn now *g*

::cough::two b's in my name::cough::;D

Just didn't want the poor other girl getting questions she wasn't looking for.

[castalie.livejournal.com]

Damn, I thought I'd *finally* found an easy username, and I had to mess it up lol

All fixed *g*

[webbgirl.livejournal.com]

I just gotta go and throw in those curve balls. *Heehee.*

[ruggerdavey.livejournal.com]

See, I tend to stay away from the gen because there have been times when I've read it and just been "okay, where's the sex?" Because, yeah, it seemed to me that what they had was a romantic relationship. As for the Dark Guide series, I once started it and ended up stopping because it was, to me, slash without the sex, and the whole thing just annoyed/confused me. I have nothing against gen, but that - to me - wasn't gen, and it just frustrated me. Or something. As for smarm, I've read the stuff where they kiss and hig and snuggle, and I just want to be "yeah, right" because I just don't see it. But whatever floats your boat, I suppose.

[castalie.livejournal.com]

It's weird how some TS gen writers could actually write great slash stories if they just pushed their stories a tad further. Not that they have to, of course, if they stick to the gen side of the road, it must be for a good reason- but it's weird how their road actually seems more or glued to ours... And of course, we just talk about the very pushy gen stories, not all of them, all right *g*

Also, each time I had to try and explain the Dark Guide series to someone, I realized I always had a lot of problem doing it : It's like slash... but it's not... but it just sounds that way, really really much. Confuses the hell out of me. Even if I read it as gen... just... pervie gen? Does that category even exist? lol

[patk.livejournal.com]

>>It's weird how some TS gen writers could actually write great slash stories if they just pushed their stories a tad further.<<

Yes! When I find a really good gen-story, completely with thrilling case, good relationship-stuff etc. I often think what a pity it is that the author didn't just gave that little push over the edge. *g*

I read gen because the gen-side of fandom simply has more authors who can *really* write a thrilling case-story. There *are* slash-authors who can do that too, but often the slash-authors tend to cling/focus on the variations of "how they come together", "what relationship-problems they have", "how they misundersand each other before they figure things out" etc.

There are just more case-stories on the gen-side of things and since I simply love a good "partners/established relationship case-story" with a interesting plot and the relationship stuff more as a co-plot/background thing I have to go look for it among the gen-stories.

Some of the early sentinel authors did that "partners *and* plot" stories very well and I crave for this type of stories. There is still the ocassional story of this type coming up in slash but I really wish there would be more. *g*

Greedy? Me?

Pat

:-)

[timian.livejournal.com]

I just started reading non-slash TS fic about two weeks ago, and--though I wish to offend no one--some of it is kinky. Like, kinky, kinky. Heterosexual!Jim and Heterosexual!Blair shower together, sleep together (but only sleep!), cuddle together, hug each other for minutes and minutes at a time, and often correct people's misperception that they're a couple; they love the ladies! Even though they shower and sleep together and massage each other's buttocks.

<--jaw drops

I mean, more power to whomever writes and reads this stuff while avoiding the icky gay, but... are they for real? I find it positively creepy that two guys would do all this and not fuck. It's just... freaky.

[castalie.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean- I consider those as pervie gen. Maybe we should create a new category? lol It's like gen with a twist *nod*

Reading those stories without even considering them as gay for a second seems... pretty unbelievable. I mean, the first thought you're supposed to have is : That looks like slash... now the second I have is ; but okay, let's say it's gen for the hell of it.

Now to really think it's 100% gen without an afterthought seems too much *blink*

[tobyfan.livejournal.com]

I once read an entire gen story not realizing it was gen. I kept waiting for them to get together. There was the closeness and the deep friendship and the sacrifices they made for each other and I kept waiting for the kiss. It never came. I was so mad. It's the only gen story I've ever read. *g*

[castalie.livejournal.com]

Gen, or the sex that never happens lol Do you think it's the real translation for gen? *scratches head*

Now, I didn't say anything, of course- you started it!

[crystalskull.livejournal.com]

I read the Dark Guide series, and actually had to go back and check if it was slash or not! I found it through Logan/Remy archives, and I was SO confused for a long time.

And yes, to me gen is just pre-slash or slash without the explict stating.

[castalie.livejournal.com]

The Dark Guide series is definitely confusing as hell. I mean, when I want to describe it, I always have to start several times. It's no wonder so many slashers who don't even like gen actually read this series- I mean, it's just one big slash in the making. IAnd if you don't care about sex never really happening for good, it can be a very good slash story.

I know it's gen, I respect that, I'm not saying the contrary- I even read it as gen, but really... naked bonding? Threesome bonding? Touching thighs, back arching up, legs spread... I'm not making anything up, this is in the story.

I don't know if the writer hates when slashers talk about her story in those terms, but since she used that approach... she can't ignore the slash context, can she? I'm curious.

[crystalskull.livejournal.com]

I thought it was sex without details the first time! I think she made it very slash, so much so that it's difficult to ignore the subtext. I don't know, It confuses me too.

[castalie.livejournal.com]

I wonder what she meant by it, exactly. I mean, did she play with slash undertones --although undertone almost seems a bit tame compared to what she wrote-- or did she really write the thing as strictly gen... just with a twist due to the particular way of telling the story?

[crystalskull.livejournal.com]

I think she wanted the depth of the relationship without having to write the sex.

[turps33.livejournal.com]

Oh man, don't get me started on the smarm thing.

You know that I read and write gen. However, there's a huge difference between gen and smarm. Smarm is not gen, men don't shower together, kiss one another, caress one another and stay gen. It's slash without the fucking or sucking, that's all.

It seems to me that some people walk as close to the slash line as possible without naming it slash because they don't want that label on the story, and that's something I don't understand.

I've never understood smarm, hell I think TS is the only fandom that has the damn term. I'm sorry, but I call smarm slash. The day my brother or another man tells me he's showered with, caressed and kissed one of his friends just because, maybe I'll start to accept it, but until then, it's slash under another name.

Just my pennies worth *g*

[castalie.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it sure seems that the ones walking on the smarm side of the road are actually glued to *our* side of said road, and that they don't really want to admit they are just a step away from us.

Maybe they are on the worst side of fandom. Gen isn't enough for them, but slash is too much. So they invented smarm to satisfy their needs. Who knows *g*

Just my pennies worth *g*

I actually read penises- I was wondering whether you weren't taking advantage of this post to announce me something! lol And not just one, but two! *dies*

[turps33.livejournal.com]

Good way to put it. Of course saying that would probably get your head bitten off by a smarm writer *g*

I actually read penises- I was wondering whether you weren't taking advantage of this post to announce me something! lol And not just one, but two! *dies*

ROTFLMAO! Yeah, all this time I've really been a double dicked man. Wouldn't that be an announcement and a half!

[castalie.livejournal.com]

Good way to put it. Of course saying that would probably get your head bitten off by a smarm writer *g*

In a previous comment --well, to be precise, it's in a next comment, but since I replied to it previously...-- princess_bunny mentioned a smarm writer who actually hates slash and apparently likes to rant on about it. So I suppose I'm in danger of being ranted at by smarmers like her. But I like to live dangerously *eg*

Yeah, all this time I've really been a double dicked man. Wouldn't that be an announcement and a half!

How bad is that, that it wouldn't such a shocker to me? Not that I imagine you as a double dicked man when I 'talk' to you, mind you *g* But you know how it is, we pervie slashers are hard to shock. Now, you would have announced me you were a closeted Hetter and were giving up on slash, well yeah- *that* would have been... traumatizing all right!

[turps33.livejournal.com]

I'll have to go read your comments. See, I just don't get it. How you can hate slash and write smarm, they're so damn close it's insane.

A closet hetter! I think I need a stiff drink! What a horrible thing to even think about. I'd rather have the double dick ;)

[porntestpilot.livejournal.com]

I don't understand smarm. Just fucking do it already. If you find gay sex icky [Hee! TimIan!] then why the hell are you watching the Sentinel? Dude, that show was gay sex.

Moonridge is coming up already? Damn, time flies. I wonder if I can go. It's down state in California right? Do you know if GM is going to Comic Con this year?

[castalie.livejournal.com]

Maybe they're in denial lol Poor guys- The Sentinel is definitely not the show to watch if you're not into gay show *nods*

Like I said in a previous comment, maybe smarmers (is that even a name anyway? *blink*) are still trying to find their place in the fandom? Gen isn't enough, slash is too much? *g*

Seriously now, I'm not making fun of them- to each their own, whatever float your boat, and if they don't get enough with gen but dislike or just don't care about slash, well why not? As long as they find what they want within a context they're comfortable with *nods* Plus, I may be generalizing anyway lol

I just know it's in California... and I have no idea about his joining Comic Con. I know I should because I'm pretty sure the information passed somewhere, one way or the other, but I don't *sigh*

[porntestpilot.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but there is at least one serious TS smarm who hates slash and rants on against it. That irritates me. *shrugs* Sure smarmers is a name.

Well sure, they can write whatever makes them happy, I just can't get into it, when I get to nudity, I want some sex afterwards.

I'll find it somewhere, I can't really afford to go anyway, but it's a nice thought. Must. stalk. Garett.

[castalie.livejournal.com]

Really? *blink* I was wondering about that. It's indeed pretty irritating- and somehow it even seems more irritating because it does sound hypocritical as well. It's definitely pushing the whole smarm isn't slash too far *glare*

When I get to nudity, I want some sex afterwards.

Amen to that lol

I'll find it somewhere, I can't really afford to go anyway, but it's a nice thought. Must. stalk. Garett.

Not that I want to sound redundant but amen to *that*!

[porntestpilot.livejournal.com]

And touch his hair!

[castalie.livejournal.com]

He looks so fucking sexy with his short curls! I know most of his fans preferred him with his hair long, like Blair had, but I'm all for short hair in men, and curly short hair is just even better and cuter *g*

[porntestpilot.livejournal.com]

Noo, I miss the hair. I loved the Blairhair to death. But I still want to touch it, short or not.

[timian.livejournal.com]

Maybe they're in denial?

That's it exactly! Smarm strikes me as the weirdest thing because it's not Jim and Blair who are in denial about being gay/bi,¹ it's the writer who's in denial. And though this may be off topic, one thing in particular I've seen in smarm/slash really bugs me: The "they're not gay/bi, they're just driven by 'instinct.'" thing. Er... People do realize that the compulsion to have sex with anyone is due to instinct, right? People aren't just magically straight; they're responding to a biological imperative, just like gay/bi/whatever people. This apparent assumption that being attracted to someone of the same sex isn't "innocent" like straight attraction takes me to the Bad Place.

Aaaaand sorry for the rant. :)


_{¹ What with the massaging of buttocks, showering together and kissing. Jim and Blair are on the Clue Bus. Heck, they're driving the Clue Bus.}

[castalie.livejournal.com]

Aaaaand sorry for the rant. :)

Rant away- sometimes we just have to let it go lol


1 What with the massaging of buttocks, showering together and kissing. Jim and Blair are on the Clue Bus. Heck, they're driving the Clue Bus.

And they could have an accident if they don't pay attention while driving it

[ekwins2004.livejournal.com]

>>However, and even though I'm the hard core slasher that I am, I'm usually a very good girl and never think slash or pre-slash when I read those pushing-smarm stories. I stick to what to the writer wanted me to see. They say it's gen? Well, okay, it's gen and let's forget the hints and innuendos you can see just everywhere. <<

I agree here. I love a lot of those types of stories and I don't care how unrealistic they are -- I'm enjoying reading them too much to fret over how they're labeled.

So, it's not appreciated when the author herself seems to make a point of telling the reader over and over that "this isn't really a slash story, even though it seems like it is" within the story itself.

Jess Riley's recent crucifixion story struck me that way. I hadn't noticed any problems in her prior ones (which I really enjoy).

I've also noticed that Jet seems to be doing a lot of "my brother" stuff lately (or maybe I'm just now noticing). Not only does it make the reader suspect she's bending over backwards to say it isn't slash, but Jim and Blair referring to each other as "my brother" (even if only mentally) comes across as awkward to me. I think they'd stick with "my buddy" or even just "my friend", rather than thinking in terms of "my brother".

EK

[castalie.livejournal.com]

Hi there *g*


I agree here. I love a lot of those types of stories and I don't care how unrealistic they are -- I'm enjoying reading them too much to fret over how they're labeled.

*high fives EK* That's exactly my point. It's like I know it's not... gen material or anything, but I go with the flow lol

It's true that some writers seem to be pushing and pushing the fact that no it is not slash even though every other writer would call it that, or maybe pre-slash.

In a sense, it means that they are definitely aware of what they are writing and how, they just don't want to cross the line. And okay, it's their stories anyway, but they can't ignore the fact that some slashers will ignore their point of view, I think- or get angry with it. Even if, of course, it must be frustrating for some of them, but somehow, they asked for it- does it make sense? And I'm not making fun of them, of course *g*

The my brother stuff doesn't really work for me either. I mean, yes, they can acknowledged their deep friendship and bond in such a term once, to try and determine how they feel for each other- it can work, but like you I can't see them referring to each other, in their heads or otherwise in those terms.

[patk.livejournal.com]

>...but Jim and Blair referring to each other as "my brother" (even if only mentally) comes across as awkward to me. I think they'd stick with "my buddy" or even just "my friend", rather than thinking in terms of "my brother".<

Well, that probably comes from the Sen Too 2 scene with Blair in the hospital bed (from Becky's transcripts, although I haven't heard the original english version that was showed on TV):

Blair: (laughing) I can't believe this. Einstein said the greatest experiences we can have are the ones with the mysterious. We are definitely there, my brother. Come on in, man. The water's nice.

Pat

:-)

[helvirago]

There's certainly gen that's actually gen, and I totally respect that.

But yeah, the slash-without-sex... the Dark Guide series in particular confuses the hell out of me, because she's set the story up to make them have to cuddle... or DIE! And then there's all the h/c stuff that I usually only see as setups to sex in slash stories... it's everything right up to the sex and then they just... don't go there.

Obviously, I find it kind of frustrating. Cause I think it'd make a neat and fun slash series, but instead it's this puzzling creature that drives me insane.

[castalie.livejournal.com]

The Dark Guide series doesn't just have cuddle but naked bonding, and threesome bonding, and if you show the scenes to a slasher --or anyone else I'm pretty sure of it-- they'll find the bonding scenes pretty hot even though it seems there's never really penetration. But when you read it, you find naked bodies rubbing on each other, legs spread, thighs touching, body touching in general --from three people-- and completion... so yeah, it's hot... but not in a slash context, which is definitely confusing.

Obviously, I find it kind of frustrating. Cause I think it'd make a neat and fun slash series, but instead it's this puzzling creature that drives me insane.

Lol Smarm or the unknown entity of fandom. I like that *g* Thanks for answering.